Forum

Notifications
Clear all

The Kaylon Threat: Do we still trust Isaac?

 

YesAndAgain
(@yesandagain)
Ensign
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 80
Topic starter  

It’s probably unquestionable that the Kaylon and Orville will meet again, but what are your thoughts on the way things ended?  In the 25th c. we are a “forgiving” race, but we still engage in many battles, our weapons may stun, but can also be set to kill. Do we forgive Isaac?  Isaac’s final actions were noble, but can we really get past the fact that he was the catalyst for the failed destruction of the entire human race and the foundation of battles that will ensue?

Was it a mistake for Ed to take Isaac back without any fail safe as Admiral Halsey suggested? “He’s the reason they were here at all.”

For such an advanced race, couldn’t the Kaylon control Isaac remotely? After all, they did shut him down and in The Road Not Taken there is a slight suggestion of this.

How will it end? Will it ever end? I’m thinking a virus could “infect” Kaylon programming to make the species more “compatible,” but in a way that will probably provide further knowledge of “biologicals” so that they are able to make their own choices (25th c. Earthlings wouldn’t want to totally control a race’s thinking) so we may actually get an uprising (Kaylon that are sympathetic to humans).

What are your thoughts?

kaylon[1]

 

This topic was modified 3 years ago 2 times by YesAndAgain

atuzam liked
Quote
atuzam
(@atuzam)
Ensign
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 48
 

I'd also had the thought - pretty much as soon as Halsey & Mercer had that conversation - that the decision might "come back to haunt" Ed, or at the very least, might be challenged by a crew member, or that even Isaac himself might raise it as a concern.

I'd also had the thought that we'll meet some rogue Kaylons who are "biological sympathizers." 

For now, though (at least for S3), I'm guessing we can at least MOSTLY trust Isaac, it would be a plot killer to reveal him as a double agent or have him change his mind or allow the Kaylons to control him... at least for now. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if there are hints/suggestions that one of these things might change in S4 or later, but for this season, I'm guessing he's on "our side."

What a fun question! I can't wait to hear what other people think!


Tink L liked
ReplyQuote
Tink L
(@tink)
Ensign
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 227
 

(Name protected) From Twitter thread: 

“Isaac betrayed his own to protect the the crew. Yes. Isaac didn't have to save Ty and yet Isaac did. When humans make mistakes, is it that easy to forgive them over a machine? He literally sacrificed himself. Why should this still be an issue? People forgive humans, why not Isaac”

YES AND AGAIN:

“It’s a valid point, there may be enough reason to merit forgiveness.”

PROTECTED: “Humans have done much worse. Yet, we continue to forgive them without thinking about it. What's the difference? He went against his programming. Humans aren't programmed. What's their excuse? Isaac is the reason they have an advantage over the Kaylon”

YES AND AGAIN: “I don’t disagree, but historically not all humans who have done worse have been readily forgiven. Also the advantage over the Kaylon that Isaac represents is yet to be seen; Season 3 should be full of surprises.”

TINK: “I feel like humans are “programmed” for better or worse - disinformation, media influence, world leaders who lie, family teachings, religious indoctrination. Yes, I think we can forgive Isaac. Does that mean we trust him? He seems to be an AI that can learn. So with caution, yes!”

PROTECTED: “Doesn't the meaning of true forgiveness include trust? Without trust, there could be no true forgiveness. Or is trust separate?”

TINK: “I think maybe Isaac did just that. The programmers altered his program after his shut down so it may be that his already learned programming from time on The Orville kicked in. Maybe there was a sympathetic Kaylon working in the “reprogramming” team ...”

JOHN: “As an artificial life form, the calculations of survivability vs required intervention are beyond our human capabilities 😃🤷‍♂️”

This is the majority of the discussion! 


atuzam liked
ReplyQuote
Tink L
(@tink)
Ensign
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 227
 
Just to note, I personally believe trust and forgiveness are separate and don’t have to go hand-in-hand.   

🤝


atuzam liked
ReplyQuote
atuzam
(@atuzam)
Ensign
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 48
 

@tink

Agreed, I don't think trust and forgiveness necessarily go hand in hand. I think they frequently go hand in hand, but I can certainly forgive someone although I know they're going to screw me again (and therefore not trust them), and I can also hold a grudge against someone for doing something, but fully believe that they won't do it again (and therefore trust them).


Tink L liked
ReplyQuote
Share: